Comments on: Ask John Editorial: What Exactly Do Japanese & American Otaku Like About Anime? https://www.animenation.net/blog/ask-john-editorial-what-exactly-do-japanese-american-otaku-like-about-anime/ Anime News & More! Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:26:56 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.5 By: seanny https://www.animenation.net/blog/ask-john-editorial-what-exactly-do-japanese-american-otaku-like-about-anime/comment-page-1/#comment-2261 Tue, 24 Mar 2009 01:41:01 +0000 https://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15064#comment-2261 This reminds me of what I’ve observed in silly Japanese television shows that feature panels of celebrities providing commentary as they “watch the show with you”, and the uniquely Japanese Nico Nico Douga which provides a similar effect with its on-screen comments system. I think the illusion of being part of a circle of friends definitely carries over to the anime world, as John wrote about above. I think it also extends to how anime approaches (say) comedy. By building a library of recurring, evolving inside jokes (Hare Nochi Guu, Mahoujin Guru Guru) or relying on insular “otaku” knowledge (Suzumiya Haruhi, Kannagi), I get the distinct impression that a lot of anime want to make you, the viewer, feel like part of the story & an insider to the fictional world. That kind of insular approach (moé) tends not to carry the same appeal to “Western” otaku as a story that can stand on its own.

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By: John https://www.animenation.net/blog/ask-john-editorial-what-exactly-do-japanese-american-otaku-like-about-anime/comment-page-1/#comment-2249 Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:25:59 +0000 https://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15064#comment-2249 “Western otaku on the whole should be given slightly more credit than a mute obsession with action programming.”

I certainly do agree. I hope I didn’t create the reductive impression that I was proposing that American anime viewers are fundimentally incapable of appreciating anime for multiple reasons. I simply think that American viewers have a stronger instinctual (conditioned?) attraction toward action and narrative progression than do Japanese viewers. But that instinctual attraction definitely doesn’t exclude recognition and respect of other qualities inherent to anime.

Thanks to all who’ve contributed to this engaging and insightful discussion.

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By: Aaron H. Bynum https://www.animenation.net/blog/ask-john-editorial-what-exactly-do-japanese-american-otaku-like-about-anime/comment-page-1/#comment-2245 Sun, 22 Mar 2009 03:54:59 +0000 https://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15064#comment-2245 I don’t necessarily disagree with your point John, I agree that there is a solid portion of the western audience that is conditioned to view their moving-picture entertainment as a sequence of frenetic action events; but I believe that it is worth adding that this view isn’t an exclusive view of western otaku (not that you claim it to be, at any point).

America’s penchant for bankrolling boorish action projects is a direct manifestation of the film and home video industries’ marketing magic, perfected over decades of pin-pointing (or is it pigeonholing?) key demographics into movie genres. In other words, because studios neglect cross-genre properties by and large, ignoring the subtleties of filmmaking and instead opting for a reaffirmation of industry status quo, advertising and promotional officials resultantly market toward genre interests.

For television animation, much of this still applies. Regardless of whether one chooses to append the Americans-think-animation-is-for-kids mantra or not, the truth of the matter is that marketing funds for cartoons in the states goes through a funnel before it hits audiences. When it comes to animation “for adults,” American television animation is generic, formulaic, lacks spirited writing, and is generally devoid of quality visual design, with very few exceptions. Expectations aren’t high from audiences, and likewise, there are often more suits than creatives in decision-making roles perpetuating this concept. (Animation for older viewers originally produced in Canada, Italy, France, or the UK, however, reach quite a bit higher than this.)

From this angle, I think this helps explain that some of the biases of the American anime fan aren’t of his own doing… but is rather an invention of the somewhat greedy, opportunistic entertainment culture.

Bringing this discussion back to anime, western otaku on the whole should be given slightly more credit than a mute obsession with action programming. Other than just action anime, I would argue that American anime fans are diverse enough to appreciate Japanese animation for the additional purpose of appreciating storytelling in animation that doesn’t patronize its viewership.

Storytelling in anime is phenomenally diverse, and I think there are western viewers who appreciate the novelty of this just as much as they might have an affinity for genre entertainment (action proper).

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By: relentlessflame https://www.animenation.net/blog/ask-john-editorial-what-exactly-do-japanese-american-otaku-like-about-anime/comment-page-1/#comment-2242 Sat, 21 Mar 2009 05:13:24 +0000 https://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15064#comment-2242 Steven: The interesting thing about that (and I do agree with you) is that it could lead into a whole other discussion about the stereotypical American’s desire for unpredictability/originality whereas, as you point out, most anime have the ending in mind right from the start (and thus, if you’re keen enough on picking up the hints, are quite safe and predictable, which works in the favour of the “alternate world” audience). But in there you might have the sort of weird balancing point — action-seekers appreciate that the plot is heading somewhere, while escape-seekers are okay as long as the plot is heading somewhere non-threatening. It’s not as if it’s really too extremes anyway… But yeah, good point; IIRC, John’s talked about this sort of thing before too.

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By: Steven Den Beste https://www.animenation.net/blog/ask-john-editorial-what-exactly-do-japanese-american-otaku-like-about-anime/comment-page-1/#comment-2240 Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:10:53 +0000 https://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15064#comment-2240 One of the things I like most about anime is that a lot of series tell complete stories, with a real finish that was planned from the very beginning.

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By: relentlessflame https://www.animenation.net/blog/ask-john-editorial-what-exactly-do-japanese-american-otaku-like-about-anime/comment-page-1/#comment-2236 Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:23:22 +0000 https://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15064#comment-2236 Following the English anime blogosphere certainly seems to support this theory. For example, the “universally accepted” format for episode summary posts is:

1. What happened
2. Reaction to what happened

And, of course, the big complaint is that, unsurprisingly, they didn’t like what happened. The shows that tend to be least popular with American fans are shows that have a loose semblance of a plot (or none at all!) built primarily around showcasing key character archetypes/stereotypes and traits. But even then, one could probably make an argument that *most* shows are in fact designed in that manner. As you correctly point out, so much of Japanese marketing is built strictly around character designs and traits.

Also, this theory/observation would tend to support the stereotypical American dislike of “reset endings” (despite their huge prevalence in anime). The “reset ending” is essential to maintaining the alternate world mindset, because it allows viewers to remain engrossed in that universe even once the show is long over (and relive it again through merchandise and so on). They can still believe that anything can happen, and characters will live on largely unchanged. Whereas the stereotypical American fan is more interested in the journey of the plot, so a “reset” might appear to negate the progress that was made and make the plot seem less impactful. If they buy the merchandise it’s because they want to “go through that journey again”, and the ending is a part of that. What you want to get out of something obviously affects how you feel about what you get.

Finally, I think that fans who have a different perspective than the sort of “cultural norm” will have a hard time understanding and relating to their fellow fans. At least, I know I do. Even among the niche genres that are more mildly accepted now, you still find a pronounced slant/bias in the appreciation for these shows. (For example, the English fan community’s ability to turn nearly every romantic anime into a prize fight where bets are to be taken and rivals passionately hated until defeat. Even in shows that are supposed to be all about the characters, it gets turned into a journey that’s all about the end-result.) So I think that recognizing these sorts of cultural biases is important, even (and especially) if you find yourself on the “other side of the fence”. At least you can get a handle on where the other person might be coming from.

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